Touching base with my fellow CC fans

I also meant to quote another great Brit, Winston Churchill, 'Never give up! Never give up! Never give up!'

we so desperately need.

David, I appreciate your sentiment, but please tell me, how do we understand evil? I do think some things are beyond human comprehension and this is one of them. With all due respect to Verdoux, I don't think we will ever understand it, but we sure as hell can condemn it, recognize it, and fight it.

Good for you, Deborah.

But David's right - we SHOULD endevour to understand the enemy, then, after we bomb them all and let Allah sort 'em out, we can see where they're sprouting up and nip 'em at the bud.

It is possible to understand evil, just as it is possible to ignore it. Ignoring it leads to escalations which ultimately cannot be ignored. Understanding it allows for (at least) the possibility dealing with it before becomes truly abhorent.

I can imagine that it may be difficult for one who believes what we have experienced is beyond human comprehension, to see that there is a distinction between understanding and acceptance or excusing. Make no mistake, I in no way accept or excuse what happened on September 11. But I happen to believe (and I think Chaplin's words indicate he did too) that only with understanding can noble responses be made to ignoble realities. It may well be that the core of that evil which you find incomprehensible is pure, irrational emotion. If so, doesn't it become that much more imperative for us to *try* to react out of rational understanding instead of fear or hate? Isn't that what Chaplin was talking about?

How about justice first, then rational understanding? We are dealing with *actions* not emotions. We can hate the evil actions, even if they may possibly be the result of 'acting out' irrational emotions.

Was he also interesting in 'understanding'

Evil does not need to be understood, beyond the understanding we need to identify and exterminate it.

And I find the notion that in retaliating against the NYC bombing that we're putting ourselves on the same moral level as the enemy highly objectionable, and grossly un-American - although I suppose there are some here who would consider that a compliment.

You haven't done any 'evil' in your life??

Sorry, this has nothing to do with Chaplin anymore.

mika perälä

So everytime you do something nasty or 'bad' you identify it and don't do it again? Good for you.

As I am not American you may call me as un-American as you want and - yes- you are on the same level if you will for example 'blindly' bomb Afganistan trying to hit Osama bin Laden. Innocent people will die too and that's the same thing as in WTC-attack. In few weeks, even if your Army does nothing, maybe hundreds of thousands Afganistans have no food for, I don't no any numbers, but huge amount of them were fed by Red Cross etc. which have left the country now.

mika perala

Ignoring it leads to escalations which ultimately cannot be it before becomes truly abhorent.

Maybe this is about words David. Do you think Chaplin as Verdoux meant 'understand' or 'recognise?' Recognising evil seems to allow for dealing with it without the need to 'understand' it.

No, I see the distinction. I have read tons of books and seen films about Hitler's final solution. It is still beyond my comprehension. I will never understand it. Don't know why Timothy McVeigh thought as he did, or Ted Bundy or, on and on.... I'm coming to the realization that one who is not capable of such atrocities can not ever truly understand them.However, I can recognise evil when I see it.

>But I happen to believe (and I think Chaplin's words indicate he did

I don't believe it takes 'rational understanding' to make a noble response. It just takes rationality, period. We don't have to act out of fear or hate, just from our knowledge that our American ideals are threatened. If the enemy is hell bent on your destruction, negotiations are not possible. Self preservation kicks in. I'm not sure I have a grasp on what it is Chaplin was trying to say here. But lest we forget, his character Verdoux was a cold blooded killer.

Yeah, um, whatever.

The purpose of war is to hurt people and destroy things. We didn't start this, and if innocent people die in the process of making sure that the terrorists are exterminated, too bad.

Let 'em eat sand. I'm not engaging in this thread any longer.

I'm sorry Doug. I honestly only wanted to touch base with my fellow CC fans and inject a little utopia via Chaplin's TGD speech. The Verdoux comment lobbed in by David has redirected this thread into more politics. So I can see, nothing has changed here in AMC and I am somehow slightly heartened by the fact. My best to all of you fellow Americans.