CITY LIGHTS and music scores for silent films.

Re-posted from alt.movies.silent

Group: alt.movies.silent Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999, 7:23pm

& music (was Re: The Unknown last ni...

What was CC's 'original intent?' Chaplin would have released it as a silent if he could have. The recorded soundtrack was simply a commercial concession to the reality of the dominance of sound.

He added a few gags that depend on synchronized sound, but do they constitute his 'original intent?'   The genesis of this lay back when the movie was of conceived as a silent.

Actually, the live presentation probably approximates the grand aural presentation that Chaplin would have liked for the film. but which was no longer commercially practicable.

The idea that the Chaplin estate needs to squeeze dollars out of CITY LIGHTS is laughable. The bulk of the estate is surely invested in solid securities, which is the requirement for any such managed account.

I fear for our cultural heritage, too, but as long as the original is kept intact and available, that fear is not justified.

You have been repeating this for over 2 years but it depends on the dubious definition of CITY LIGHTS as a sound film, and the assumption that the soundtrack, while important as a cultural artifact, is as critical to the meaning of the film as the visuals.

Because the purpose of a score is to enhance the perception of the visuals.

It is therefore of secondary esthetic importance, though some scores may have independent esthetic merit.

Good idea, if it improves our perception of the visual meaning of the film, (as long as the originals are preserved for archival purposes.)

Historically and sociologically, there is some value

<snipping a long post from Bob Birchard and his responses>

basis of that rationale, yes, preserve the original materials and have them available for

I agree with George. I don't see why this has to be an either/or position. I saw _City Lights_ with orchestration by Carl Davis. I was not disappointed in hearing Chaplin's score live, but there were glitches. The orchestra was out of synch with the film at first and had to wait until an appropriate time to stop. It was distracting to say the least. Why can't the sound effects that Chaplin used in CL be recorded and played along with the film and orchestra? Isn't that a fair representation of Chaplin's intent? As for authenticity, Bob, fine. Keep the old cylinders of Caruso, listening to them is like time travel. But I also sure would love to hear him minus all the hiss if at all possible. Does that make me a heretic? I don't think so.

Of course, it doesn't. I love to hear the original CITY LIGHTS score as Chaplin recorded it, but I also realize that Chaplin had no choice but to record that score, given that the silent film orchestras were dead and gone by 1931. Would he not have preferred to hear his score played by a live orchestra had it been possible? The recorded score could have been for those theatres lacking that amenity.

When I saw ALEXANDER NEVSKY accompanied by members of the Philadelphia Orchestra, Boston Light and Sound was able to present the sound effects and dialogue as well. Perhaps the effects tracks of CITY LIGHTS were not separately preserved.

No, of course it does not. Bob is taking the archival/collector posture. But movies are not meant for museums, they are meant for audiences. If an art-form is going to have any social impact, if it is has any cultural vibrancy, it must appeal to new publics and new generations.

The term 'fair representation' is a good test to apply and any intelligent Chaplin aficionado can make that judgment. We don't need a draconian, quasi-moralistic litmus test based on the physical elements

George Shelps wrote

I dunno about that, but I could have sworn that when the burglars fire the gun toward the end of the movie & the police sirens blare (which prompts Charlie to leave the mansion), that those sound effects were on the film.

~ Crooner

When CITY LIGHTS is presented in concert with live orchestra, a special print with an effects-only optical sound track is used, and the sound effects come off of the film. Most of the sound effects are the original 1930 recordings. It was impossible, however, to recapture the kazoo used in the monument-dedication scene, so that effect was re-created.

David Shepard

off of the film. Most of the sound effects are the original 1930 recordings.

Thanks for clarifying that, David.

>It was impossible, however, to recapture the kazoo used in the monument-dedication scene, so that effect was re-created.

Aw, and that is my favorite sound effect in the film. I would have liked to have seen Chaplin wielding a kazoo!

Why was it impossible?

~ Crooner